Chee SJ not wrong in asking ex-PM GCT "Where is our monies?

last SG · 2008-01-22T21:35:06+00:00

Chee is the most active and aggressive force in Singapore opposing the PAP ruling clique.If don't discuss him, discuss who?No one else dares to oppose and re...

robertteh SG

We don't know whether ministers in addition to writing their own pay cheques by the millions are also receiving director fees or some other rewards like advisor fees for being advisor to international banks currently being bailed out by GIC or Temasek using our citizens monies to do so.

For CSJ we are quite sure he does not receive any salaries from the government for playing his role in checking on wrongfulness of government unlike the regular MPs or the ministers who receive such fees for not doing any such duties. As for the frequent claims that he is receiving payments from some sources for doing what he is doing I feel quite sure that he did not receive same director or advisor fees as director or advisor fees from banks being bailed out or having dealing with the government.

drawer SG

Whenever the PAP government make an investment overseas,they always cited the investment as if it is "a once in a lifetime opportunity.

When they invest in Thailand Thangsin and Indonesia telecom,they also thought that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity,but look what happen in the end? Rolling Eyes

drawer SG

Goh Chok Tong is just a tail-shaking watch dog of the Lee family,simple as that.

CX SG

I think the meaning is that he's not receiving any salaries from THIS government...

http://www.mha.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=219

I'm not a big fan of PAP and their heavy handedness but I'm not a big fan of foreign directed "regime change" as well...

robertteh SG

No sign yet of any bogey foreign power trying to use our opposition politicians to play as 5th column to subjugate our sovereignty. One would have thought that with the talents that they claim to possess our government should have discovered any such fifth columnists by now with evidence or our army and intelligence would have got hold of full evidence of such secret agents.

Let they do their jobs professionally.

As people, we have a duty to speak up as one to scrutinise any government who tries to abuse power and govern with hypocrisy and doing what it likes to serve its own interest.

kramnave SG

There have been a number of issues that citizens are not happy about. However where is Chee Soon Juan ? Does he only need to protest when foreign journalists are in town ? Or is he busy counting the money he collected after the Burmese saga ?

CX SG

What do u mean "no sign yet" ?

There were signs. Thats why he's not trusted, not entertained and not tolerated by the PAP.

U consider using foreign funding to organise local political activities to be a transparent, aboveboard and democratic activity?

As much as I am not blind to the weaknesses and heavy handedness of this government, I am also not blind to some of the questionable practices of Dr Chee Soon Juan.

U are right that as citizens, we have a duty to question the government, to better understand the situation faced by the country and to receive some fair answers.

But like you said: It is the PEOPLE's responsibility. Not just the responsibility of the "one-man-army" Chee Soon Juan.

I find it a bit unfair of u to perceive the govt to be the worst of the worst while at the same time thinking that CSJ represents patriotism, altruism and is the embodiment of a responsible political activist.

I think they're all crooks to various extents and it is the responsibility of ALL Singaporeans to check ALL such figures.

The problem is apathy, not PAP.

robertteh SG

I am not CSJ party member or his supporter. I am not treating him as a patriot but am trying to be fair and objective.

CSJ was not really guilty of anything terrible so far. He has raised major issues with the government and in doing so he has stepped on the toes of the powerful politicians.

In asking GCT "where is our monies" for which he was heavily criticized by some weak-minded fellow citizens he was doing all citizens a big favor. Look at how bold our government has become due to its assuming absolute power today to such an extent that today citizens' monies are being thrown at all the bail-outs of foreign institutions for their own names and connections sake when back home our own fellow citizens are facing much financial problems.

If CSJ is indeed a foreign agent, we have all the police and intelligence service to pin him down with full evidence. So far there is no evidence against him but only suspicions. All these suggest that there may be a lot of propagandas being built up against him to destroy him politically.

Should our fellow citizens fail prey to such propagandas to fix the oppositions.

For all the weird actions or behavior highlighted by propagandas, he is not guilty of any serious crimes or anti-people activities. So we the people should try to be objective and fair and not believe in propaganda and start joining the bullies to bully him.

Tang Liang Hong, Francis Seow along with JBJ were targeted for the same threat or perceived political threats.

So let us see the larger picture and not fall for propagandas against any more good potential opposition leaders we may find.

Poh Ah Pak SG

I am also not blind to some of the questionable practices of Dr Chee Soon Juan.

Like what?

CX SG

Like taking money from foreign sources to plan political activities in SG.

We could, in all fairness, say that such "donations" are innocent aid offered by foreign NGOs to aid the cause of spreading democracy in asia.

However, if that was the case, then the amount should be declared and it would be nice and aboveboard. BUT Dr Chee chose to ignore the law.

That raises the question in my mind: why hide if there is nothing to hide?

He is guilty of a similar lack of transparency in his modus operandi.

Now, another point: What's his income now? We know that Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang are businessmen. They also draw an MP salary. Nobody can accuse them of taking money that is inappropriate here.

But Dr Chee? He can't very well eat air now can he?

Melvin Tan SG

With due respect and no reference to the topic, there is also no sign of many things said by forumers that have happened but became internet urban legends.

One such is CPF money. My parents, parents-in-law and relatives within 5-years range in age and withdrew their CPF monies without a cent missing. However, the "empty coffers" theory is a favourite jibe, if you'd recall. Some even asked that opposition MPs to take it up.

It is fine to ask for more transparency but when it is reflected in the Budget and you counter that it is not there, it is a different matter.

There are a lot of urban legends against not only the PAP government, but opposition parties - yes, even SDP too. It could be because there are people who wish to affirm the entity they support or disdain.

Regards

Singa Crew SG

I think Dr Chee did right too. No sane righteous man could say what he did was wrong.

Unfortunately, the 'media' helped to distort the message Dr Chee was trying to put across to the nation. Yeah, I could still remember the many men in white standing forth to condemn him for his 'bad manners'. You know, I really worry for a nation whose citizenry could have such misplaced priorities... Did they seriously think 'good manners' was more important than all the money in our Reserves?

I notice there are some members posting to this thread saying they agree with us in general, but feel that Dr Chee's method of questioning was wrong or whatever...

I find that most suspicious. If you are drawing attention to how 'rude' Dr Chee was when he questioned GCT about our monies, you are not acting like a normal person. Think about it. If someone owes you a huge sum of money, and your representative went after the errant debtor, the first thing on your mind shouldn't be how 'rude' your representative was to the debtor.

Unless you have a job to do, which is to detract the people from the important issues at stake.

Crew

robertteh SG

Melvin,

I can say your mild assignation of other causes to be looked at may precisely be due to years of indoctrination by government propaganda against credible oppositions by its controlled media which employed top government people to its editorial board and political writers to do such indoctrination.

The constant propaganda being churned out against Dr. Chee could be the result of deliberate discrediting of opposition e.g. playing up on the rudeness of Dr. Chee and his likely financing by some foreign powers is totally out of proportion to the real issue Dr. Chee was fighting for i.e. need for accountability and transparency in the way monies in our citizens' reserves are being lightly used to serve ruling government's own political objectives and agendas.

If our citizens do not have this ability to see through such media propaganda sad to say there will be no change and we will continue to have a government which will continue to behave arrogantly spewing propagandas against potential good leaders.

Atobe SG

It is indeed fortunate for that generation - which your parents, parents-in-law and relatives belong to - to be able to pick-up their CPF.

Apply the following not unrealistic sum on to an Excel spread sheet, and you figure if there is any cause for this Government to continuously tinker with the CPF withdrawal rules that will arbitrarily prevent Singaporeans from taking out the full sum of their CPF Savings for various reasons:

Monthly CPF Contribution : $200
x 12 months per year
x 25 years of working life
x Working Population of 1,000,000

Keeping the matter simple, the above total has not included the compounded annual interest.

Tell us if there is enough in the Singapore Reserves for the government to pay for this hypothetical small workforce of 1,000,000 Singaporeans saving for a period of 25 years - based on what we can only assume the Reserves can be.

Is there any reason for this government to ''frantically'' make the available money grow - by ''investing'' in properties, real estates, banks, big and small 'profitable' commercial enterprises across the globe ?

genie99 SG

I applaud your argument ....60 billion ... Shocked

But then again i'm sure alot of SG out there are buying 99 year leases that expend their lifetime of CPF Laughing so the govt is getting some $ back.

Meh the govt is doing their best Mr Atobe, land is limited and we have China & India to compete with, their labour costs are lower than us and we have alot of catching up to do if we are to match them in labour costs ..... and on top of everything most of us that are staying in HDB are renting stuff, don't own nthing..... our cars 10 years *poof*, HDB 99 years *poof*.

Singapore good hor? Vote PAP ..... i help you vote too Wink

<Precious> SG

CSJ certainly was not wrong to question our ex-PM where our money had gone to. But it was the manner in which CSJ had done so which landed him in trouble with the law (defamation).

Had CSJ arranged a formal and proper forum to challenge our ex-PM and yet still get into trouble, I would have supported TS and his hero, CSJ..... But was this done? No.

TS damn bloody bo liao leh! Evil or Very Mad

Time and again, he simply refuses to understand this and continues to insist that CSJ was penalised fot being rude la, uncouth la, blah blah.......

Well, I guess TS is exercising his freedom to continue making himself look stoo-pid. So cheers! Razz

robertteh SG

Your view is CSJ was rude and because he was rude no matter how right he was on the issue of use of people's monies to rescue foreign sovereign like Suharto, you are prepared to condemn him.

Now is that the conduct of a rationale and objective citizen. Or will you not be encouraging the government to get bold and start taking more of citizens' monies and spend them for their own pride and other purposes.

genie99 SG

I agree with you 100% plus guarantee Smile

But one has to wonder why this dumb dumb CSJ are doing these stuff.

Its so apparent to our forumners he is dumb in doing so ..... lets give CSJ a chance to defend himself....

I found this on another thread..... and im going to quote FEER's interview with him.

http://www.feer.com/articles1/2006/0607/free/p024.html

Mr. Chee is not terribly concerned about election results.
It would be foolish, he suggests, for an opposition party in Singapore to pin its hopes on gaining one, or perhaps two, seats in parliament. He is aiming for a much bigger goal: bringing down the city-states one-party system of government. His weapon is a campaign of civil disobedience against laws designed to curtail democratic freedoms.

You dont vote out a dictatorship, he says. And basically thats what Singapore is, albeit a very sophisticated one. Its not possible for us to effect change just through the ballot box. Theyve got control of everything else around us. Instead whats needed is a coalition of civil society and political society coming together and demanding changea color revolution for Singapore.

The need for transparency and accountability also means that Singapore will have to change. That is the source of Mr. Chees optimism in the face of all his setbacks: I realize that Singapore is not at that level yet. But weve got to start somewhere. And Im prepared to see this out, in the sense that in the next five, 10, 15 years, time is on our side. We need to continue to organize and educate and encourage. And it will come.

Want to know more? Click and go read ..... Anyways Im voting for your PAP so don't flame me.... see if i care anymore

Doubletalk SG

Originally posted by lionnoisy:
1.Ask US citizens how come the great country so heave indebted??
It is no use u describe US govt as free democratic ...etc

The US $$ is falling like a rock for 40 Years..

Left 10% purchasing value in 55 yrs>>

Why ?u under pay US Presidents and so many officials!!

peanuts can feed monkeys only.
u need banana to feed elephants to work for u.

great sources of US info

Selective reading? Mr. Green
#1 Core Problem: INCREASED GOVERNMENT-DOMINANCE OF OUR ECONOMY
...Government is not a 'free-lunch' - - citizens now work 3 times longer per year to pay all taxes, more than they pay for food, housing and clothing combined, which reduces their own freedom of choice. Government growth reduced the private sector from 7.3 times larger than the government sector when I was young to just a 1.5 ratio today, a huge drop... Mr. Green

Melvin Tan SG

Dear Robert,

I believe I stated an example that derived from a real-life experience and gave nothing off on what was read in the local press.

In addition, there was nowhere that I mentioned Dr Chee and I did express that I shall not and refrained from laying judgement of anyone in public.

Finally, I have seen people who disavow the local press use it when the reports favour them.

Regards

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